Chasing Hope for America’s Children: A Conversation with Bruce Lesley

Don't miss the latest episode of "Chasing Hope for America’s Children: A Conversation with Bruce Lesley." We sit down with Bruce Lesley, the President of First Focus on Children, to discuss critical issues facing kids in America.

Learn more about Bruce's work here: https://firstfocus.org/about-us/staff-and-board/bruce-lesley/. 

Transcript

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00;00;00;00 - 00;00;19;17
Unknown
You're listening to Radio Kempe. We value the sense of community that connects people and helps them find ways to move forward. Join us on our journey to prevent child abuse and neglect.

00;00;19;17 - 00;00;39;29
Unknown
Welcome and welcome back. This is Radio Kempe. I'm Warren Binford with the Kempe Center for the Prevention and Treatment of Child Abuse and Neglect at the University of Colorado. Thank you for joining us today. Today we will be interviewing the president of First Focus on Children and its sister organization.

00;00;40;05 - 00;01;06;13
Unknown
First focused campaign for children. Bruce Leslie. Bruce can be found all day, every day, walking the halls of Congress advocating for America's children. Before that, Bruce worked for three different U.S. senators as well as in Texas state government. When Bruce is not trying to persuade our elected leaders to invest in the next generation, he can be found sharing with the public the latest on public policies affecting kids on his blog.

00;01;06;19 - 00;01;30;10
Unknown
Kids can't wait. He has thousands of followers there. Whenever I want to know what's happening with kids in D.C., I turn to Bruce. This has been an especially tumultuous period for America's children. And so I invited Bruce to join us here on Radio Camp so that you can hear directly from him. What challenges children and advocates face in the coming years based on recent events?

00;01;30;13 - 00;01;56;16
Unknown
Welcome, Bruce. Thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having me, Warren. And it's always a pleasure to talk to you about these issues. Thanks so much, Bruce. So how do things look for kids in D.C. right now? I would say that this is probably, in my entire career, the most challenging time that I've ever seen face in kids.

00;01;56;18 - 00;02;23;21
Unknown
There's sort of a systematic targeting of kids in some ways, that we're seeing from policymakers. As, policymakers think about making cuts or making changes to programs. They often target kids because, there's a lot of things that I think kids have going for them politically because people see them as deserving and the public supports them.

00;02;23;23 - 00;02;47;03
Unknown
But at the end of the day, when policymakers are thinking about cutting or, doing those kinds of things to the budget, kids are often the target because they lack political power. They don't vote. They don't have political action committees. They don't have a cadre of lobbyists. You know, supporting their best interests, pushing those issues.

00;02;47;05 - 00;03;19;02
Unknown
And consequently, they're often, treated poorly, by policymakers and, and this is unprecedented in what we're seeing right now. But there are specific policies that are unprecedented. Or is it or is it the volume of policy, changes that are unprecedented? What is it specifically that's causing you so much concern? That's a combination. I would say that even on day one, of this administration, you know, there's a lot of talk.

00;03;19;02 - 00;03;47;13
Unknown
There was a lot of talk by, policymakers. As we're coming into this congressional session of being supportive of children, lots of conversations about prenatal ism and how we should we need more kids and we need to support them. And what we've seen is the opposite. Why? What we saw, even on day one was when the president issued an executive order, for example, on birthright citizenship.

00;03;47;15 - 00;04;16;13
Unknown
I think that for, for the listeners, like, there's lots of conversations about the constitutional, you know, the issues around the Constitution and what's right about that. And I would argue that it is very clear that birthright citizenship is could not be more clear in the Constitution. But even if you want to have a debate on that, the fact is, is that the harm that getting it occurs to one set of people in this country and it is babies.

00;04;16;15 - 00;04;39;13
Unknown
Babies are the ones that are harmed. And so that was on day one. And since then we saw that you know, Elon Musk, Doge, coming to town and wipe out all kinds of agencies. And what we found when we did the analysis was it was disproportionately on children's programs, departments and agencies that worked on kids issues that got cut.

00;04;39;16 - 00;05;05;16
Unknown
So then that was happening. And then we saw what we're seeing in Congress was, through H.R. one, which, you know, so, you know, the president calls the big beautiful bill. We would argue in some ways it's it's, devastating. It is the most devastating piece of legislation I can recall for kids. It imposes over $1 trillion in cuts to health care.

00;05;05;16 - 00;05;38;08
Unknown
So we're talking about Medicaid, the Children's Health Insurance program, the Affordable Care Act. It cuts almost $200 billion out of the Snap program or what many people know as food stamps. The child tax credit, it increased the number of children who do not receive the full credit. So in a package where they're cutting $4 trillion and, you know, increased tax cuts, what they did on the child tax credit was they actually made worse for the for some families, for millions of families and children.

00;05;38;08 - 00;06;01;11
Unknown
So it just very in a very systemic way, kids have been targeted for harm. And at the end of the day, even if like what you're concerned about is the national debt, because that burden is being imposed on kids. That piece of legislation increased the national debt by $3 billion, more than $3 trillion, I'm sorry, $3 trillion. So that is a burden that kids will face too.

00;06;01;12 - 00;06;44;07
Unknown
So just it's it's really systemic. And it is it's unprecedented. So what do you think is driving this disregard for the next generation? Yeah. It's interesting. I, I, you know, at the at the risk of being too wonky, I would say that there's, there's, there's the theory around, Around sort of the, you know, in political, political psychology and, and what, what it is, is that policymakers really do have an anticipatory response is to different constituents.

00;06;44;10 - 00;07;14;23
Unknown
So they respond to political power. And that is what kids do not have. And so they will they are more likely to help, you know, farm, and, you know, food companies and corporations and wealthy people over kids. And what you saw in this tax bill, for example, was, you know, enormous cuts for to the wealthy and corporations in taxes and yet offset in part by cuts to children.

00;07;14;23 - 00;07;40;10
Unknown
So that's one aspect of this. The other aspect to it is that kids are actually seen as very deserving by the public. The public is actually all about kids. We did a poll last year that asked people questions about, you know, do you, do you believe that we should be cutting or, investing in kids?

00;07;40;10 - 00;08;05;27
Unknown
And overwhelmingly people said invest in kids on every single policy issue and by wide margins. But the problem is, is that even though kids are seen as deserving, what policymakers do then is pay a lot of lip service to it because they don't want to see be seen as being bad to kids. But at the end of the day, when they're making cuts or they're thinking about, you know, they're the most, vulnerable population.

00;08;05;28 - 00;08;29;24
Unknown
And so they're the easiest people to make the cuts to that. And they and they don't, you know, kids can't punish them for being harmful to them. And that's what we're seeing. We're really seeing that a targeting of vulnerable populations. If you think about who the administration is targeting, it is children. It is poor people. It is immigrants.

00;08;29;26 - 00;08;57;06
Unknown
And systematically, that has been, what you saw in the bill. The people who were the biggest losers. So do you have any solutions for the lack of political power that that children have, so that more pressure can be brought to bear on our elected policymakers? Yeah. I think the one thing that really does need to happen is, is, is better engagement with the public.

00;08;57;06 - 00;09;28;16
Unknown
And, I would say that they're kind of kids super power that the public overwhelmingly supports kids and but but they but they often don't know that. What are the issues facing kids. You know, there's no AARP in this country for children, right? So there's not this massive, you know, 40 million strong group. And so consequently, kids issues are often neglected, even when pollsters pull and say, you know, what are the biggest issues facing you?

00;09;28;16 - 00;09;52;08
Unknown
And they give this big laundry list. There's often not even a kids issue listed. And that's despite the fact that kids are about a quarter of the population. It's it's amazing. It system like and I read I keep using that word, but it just like it's just in this moment when you see it in media coverage, you'll see coverage of things like child abuse and neglect, right?

00;09;52;10 - 00;10;24;03
Unknown
You'll see a story. And I read a New York Times story not too long ago. That was a very long story. And it had the perspectives of parents and foster parents and juvenile justice, you know, and people, social workers and all kinds of adults, like from various aspects of this issue. And that was great. That was important. But who was not ever interviewed or no one asked, you know, was kids themselves or former foster youth or former kids who were abused and neglected.

00;10;24;03 - 00;10;56;07
Unknown
And so it's like again and again, it's just kids are neglected and just ignored. And I would say that in some ways, like this administration, I would blame for being, you know, almost abusive toward kids. But I wouldn't say I wouldn't, you know, it's not like Democrats are, you know, amazing. You know, like that idea, you might say that they're actually, you know, the party of neglect sometimes because they often fail to raise these issues in ways.

00;10;56;09 - 00;11;23;19
Unknown
And if you could, if you had either party sort of raising the positive, you might actually then have a debate toward toward improvements. And instead what we see is the targeting of kids for for harm. And it's, it's it's, very sad and disturbing. And, I think that that's what needs to happen is we've got to we've got to create a national campaign, to raise awareness to these issues because that's where the support would come from.

00;11;23;19 - 00;12;02;09
Unknown
It's the public. So who who organizes and funds a national campaign to raise awareness about children's issues and try and influence elected policymakers to start making the right decisions for the next generation? Yeah, I would say that that what needs to happen is, is some coming together of parents and pediatricians and, you know, child care workers and teachers and grandparents, like, we've got to start engaging everybody in this discussion, because if not, we're going to neglect, you know, this generation of kids.

00;12;02;09 - 00;12;43;11
Unknown
And that's going to affect all of our future. And so we really got to change this dynamic. And and so I'm not sure who, who can get all that together. I mean, we're trying to raise awareness but like it need there needs to be a counter to what we're seeing. I would I would point out, for example, the the make them making America healthy again moms like the mocha moms that that have supported Robert Kennedy in some of his work, and his issues around, you know, criticizing, you know, the food, you know, the processed food and those kinds of things.

00;12;43;14 - 00;13;12;14
Unknown
And that's real. That's a real issue. But what has happened is that in this administration, like, okay, so they put out a press release about food dyes, but that administration is also cutting millions of children from their health care nutrition. And I would argue that that's a bigger problem for children than food dye. And so it's it's almost like these issues that are being raised are almost distractions from the real harm happening.

00;13;12;14 - 00;13;36;29
Unknown
And so how do we engage these parents to focus on, you know, these bigger issues that are really negatively impacting kids and they're also part of the movement. So could they actually if they raised their voice and said, no, no, no and spoke out against some of the harm that's happening? It could have it could be beneficial to kids.

00;13;37;02 - 00;13;54;28
Unknown
1 to 1 of the controversial arguments that I've made, and I can't remember whether you agree with me or not on this, is, is that all children should have a vote, and the vote should be exercised by the parent or guardian until the child is of an age where they can exercise about themselves, that they have that capacity.

00;13;55;00 - 00;14;24;19
Unknown
I saw that the UK recently decided to lower the voting age if if we were to give kids voting rights, either earlier or at the time of birth and then exercised by parents or guardians, do you think that that would have, would address some of the issues that that you've talked about, which is that basically children are disenfranchized from America's political system or, you know, or is there another approach that could help?

00;14;24;21 - 00;14;53;12
Unknown
I mean, I do think that, like, what the British have done is, is, is great, like, I think 16 and 17 year olds being allowed to vote will make a huge difference in public policy. Because what if nothing else, even the even even absent the fact that, you know, they're going to they'll be voting. And so then the fact is that policymakers would have to reach out and think about their issues when they discuss them, because right now that's not what happens.

00;14;53;15 - 00;15;18;13
Unknown
You know, when there's you can you can look back on conversations and think, you know, debates that you see. And kids are hardly ever raised even even on issues where it is their issue, like child abuse or the child tax credit, people will end up talking about adults and you're like, hello, what about the kids? And so if if there were young people voting, that would have effect.

00;15;18;14 - 00;15;44;04
Unknown
I also think that it's this issue of really getting people to, buy in to making their vote matter for kids like, you know, asking people to commit to kids and making that part of the questions they ask. And, and things because we've seen in, in, in, we had a focus group one time where the, the moderator asked people like, what are your big issues?

00;15;44;10 - 00;16;02;18
Unknown
And people talked about an array of things, and only one person mentioned education. So they asked people, well, then you had kids and people became unglued. People were angry, like, what do you mean? I love my kids, you know? And they're like, look, I ask you about your priorities. You mentioned, so they're just you don't prioritize them.

00;16;02;20 - 00;16;23;19
Unknown
And it really came down to as the discussion happened, is that people just weren't aware. People like once you then tat, you know, you asked a specific question like, do you care about Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program? People would be like, yes. And in fact, if they if they'd said they didn't like the program, it wasn't because they thought it was doing too much.

00;16;23;19 - 00;16;45;01
Unknown
It was it was because they thought it was doing too little for kids. So it really is like the moderator said, you have the grace scratch and sniff issue, which I probably just dated myself, but it it is this, this idea that once people sort of are have the issue raised to their attention, they're they are very passionate about it.

00;16;45;03 - 00;17;12;29
Unknown
So I think it's a combination of some of these things that we've gotta get before people to make a difference. Just to give one more example is if you do polling, for example, on the child tax credit, and you ask people and you frame the question about in the in terms of parents and you say, you know, should we increase the child tax credit to help parents and, you know, with raising kids or something to that effect.

00;17;12;29 - 00;17;36;10
Unknown
And, and regardless of, you know, work or whatever, you know, like, you know, work requirements, the support levels like in this, you know, 55 to 60%. So, so there's still support. But if you then ask the question more in terms of do you think we should make the child tax credit fully refundable with a purpose of cutting child poverty?

00;17;36;13 - 00;18;10;04
Unknown
The support levels 83 to 11. Well, it so you go from like a plus ten or something along those lines to, you know, a plus 72. It's it's we've got a we've got to start framing these questions and having people talk about it this way. And often it doesn't happen. Some I would say my, my friends in the adult community, you know, we both jointly care about children and families, but sometimes it makes sense to frame the question in terms of kids, because that's what people are not seeing.

00;18;10;06 - 00;18;41;11
Unknown
With the other lovers or tools positions that we've talked about to try and combat the disenfranchisement of children in America is the creation of, like a cabinet level secretary or an administrator or ombudsperson in DC who can help to coordinate and with congressional leaders, as well as with the white House policies that support the healthy development of of children.

00;18;41;13 - 00;19;00;14
Unknown
Do you see any hope for that with this administration or a future administration? Do you still believe in that model? I do, I do, and I very strongly do. I, I think that if you look at if you look at countries around the world, right, we're the only nation in the world that hasn't ratified the UN convention on the rights of the child.

00;19;00;17 - 00;19;22;21
Unknown
But there's a lot of countries who have ratified it, and they're done terribly by kids. So what really matters? And I think that it is very clear that what matters is that if you have an ombudsman or a commissioner for kids, that it really does make a huge difference. It, it it's, it allows the voice of children to be heard.

00;19;22;23 - 00;19;48;00
Unknown
Which is exactly what we've been talking about. And it really does then, cause, you know, people to, to have to think about it and to center the issues sometimes that are in a critical way. And what we've seen is that in countries that have adopted this model, it is it has made a difference. These children's commissioners are ombudsmen have really made a difference in raising issues to the attention of policymakers and the public.

00;19;48;02 - 00;20;17;13
Unknown
I think she reports that that, that for the public to understand, as well. And, and and those are the, those are the critical things, I think, that make a difference. And, Congressman McGarvey from Kentucky has a piece of legislation that will do that. And he's he's will introduce it any day now. I mean, they and gone out of session prematurely because over the Epstein thing he might have introduced it even this month, but he'll probably do it in September.

00;20;17;16 - 00;20;38;23
Unknown
And in this moment. Right. Like, you can think of all the scandals we've had in this country and, and even the conversation right now about, Jeffrey Epstein. Right. And those scandals, like, if you had an ombudsman or a commissioner, this question of like, you know, what happened in what's going on, a commissioner could look into that, right?

00;20;38;23 - 00;21;04;12
Unknown
Like that. That would be the power that they would have is to look into this, to make recommendations for something like this to never happen again. And we see it again. Like with the women's gymnastics team, we saw that scandal that went on for years. Certainly all the, you know, the Catholic Church and other religions that there's been those scandals and, you know, the Penn State situation, the kids for cash thing in Pennsylvania as well.

00;21;04;14 - 00;21;32;09
Unknown
Like, we see these scandals all the time. And it's and it's a factor of powerful people. And the institutions will fail kids and they will cover up rather than, than doing the right thing. And, Commissioner, it could really make a huge difference in a lot of kids lives. I think so, Bruce, I know you've heard me say this a thousand times, but just for our listeners, although the US hasn't ratified the UN convention on the Rights of Child, we were a drafting party.

00;21;32;12 - 00;22;09;25
Unknown
We contributed more content to that treaty than any other drafting party. And we made changes to more content submitted by other countries than any other drafting party. And we have signed the treaty, which arguably, you know, subjects us to certain legal obligations. And in addition to that, we have ratified two related treaties. One is on child soldiers and the other one is on child prostitution, the sale of children and child pornography, which does apply in the Epstein case, the Kemp Center, recent.

00;22;09;29 - 00;22;39;10
Unknown
We submitted a report to the UN Committee on the Rights of Child, about the US's noncompliance with its treaty obligations under the, you know, the optional protocol that focuses on on child trafficking and child sexual exploitation. And so there we do have treaty obligations that say we need to be doing more, and that there are certain certain rights that children who are victims have.

00;22;39;17 - 00;23;08;05
Unknown
And the U.S. currently is not respecting the rights of those children who are being sexually exploited, such as in the Epstein case. And so I appreciate you bringing that up. I do want to acknowledge that the victims fund, has now been fully funded for victims of csam child pornography and, and that there is some funding that's coming online for other victims of tech facilitated child abuse under this administration.

00;23;08;05 - 00;23;40;24
Unknown
And so there, you know, there is some hope in pocket areas, but not nearly as much as we would hope to see. You know, given what the moral standing that we claim as a nation, and the moral standing that this particular administration claims. So I appreciate you bringing up the sexual abuse of children because we do have treaty obligations very clearly with regard to, you know, that that area of children's lives, which is far too common.

00;23;40;27 - 00;24;06;04
Unknown
So when when you're focused on these issues and you're encountering the level of challenges that, that we're, we're experiencing right now, for those of us who really care about children, which you've made, the point is, the vast majority of Americans like what gives you hope? What can give us hope? Like a couple of things. I think.

00;24;06;04 - 00;24;36;17
Unknown
One is knowing that, parents, parents in this country are a political group in play, and if they really started voting in the interests of kids, it would change the dynamics. And I think really educating them about the issues that are important to kids. Because I think sometimes people just don't. It's just it's not that it's that that you're completely unaware, but you don't think about it that way.

00;24;36;17 - 00;24;56;26
Unknown
You know, people think about you ask anybody, you know, what are the big issues for seniors? They'll say Social Security and Medicare. If you ask people that about kids, there's like a stunning silence for a few minutes typically. And people might say, well, education. And then you're like anything else. And and they kind of like they might say child care.

00;24;56;26 - 00;25;19;11
Unknown
They might say child health, but like and but then when you say, well, what about then they go, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like they get. So it's really getting that that into to their awareness I would say another thing that's really a positive thing to see is that if you look at polling around, by, by gender.

00;25;19;13 - 00;25;45;10
Unknown
Right. So you look at, you know, older men and older women, women are awesome, right? Women support for kids is like, you know, off the charts. And older men are not great. My men, you know, older men are like a jump ball 50, 50 kind of thing, whereas women are like 80, 15 kind of, situation. And, and so, it's really is a stark difference.

00;25;45;13 - 00;26;14;16
Unknown
But what you're beginning to see is that I, you know, and I would say that feminism has played a huge role in this because as men have played, you know, there's it's still not equitable, but as men have started to play more of a role in the raising of their kids, their their start, they get it more. So they support levels on in these polls show, like for women and men under the age of like 35, it's pretty close.

00;26;14;16 - 00;26;47;05
Unknown
There's not this enormous gaping gender gap anymore. And so men are beginning to get it. And so the women, the level of young women is like off the charts high. But men are now younger men are beginning just to to, you know, the percentage and support is is rising. So my hope is, is that as each generation goes by and hopefully it will continue to, be more and more engaged in their lives of their kids, that that they will become more knowledgeable and then also be more supportive.

00;26;47;05 - 00;27;15;02
Unknown
And the problem, of course, is, you know, the vast majority of policy makers in this country are old men. So we need like as it becomes as gender equity happens in, you know, in elected office and as younger people are coming into office as policymakers, we're beginning to see a difference. And and, you know, I'm hoping it's not too late by the time that all happens.

00;27;15;02 - 00;27;42;05
Unknown
But those that combination of things, I think is really does give me some hope is between the support by the public, sort of the changing gender dynamics and growing support by younger men and then also as, as younger women and men are coming into becoming office holders. We're hoping that we'll see a bigger change that I've never supported term limits in my life.

00;27;42;05 - 00;28;03;23
Unknown
I've never thought that was a good policy thing. I have to tell you, I may, I may I'm if I'm in a 5050 moment right now, I'm kind of thinking that I may start thinking that's a good idea, because I just think that there needs to be, you know, younger generations involved in, in policymaking and I think it would really change the dynamics of, of what we see.

00;28;03;25 - 00;28;31;22
Unknown
We're seeing. Let me let me push back a little bit on you. You saying and, that the next generation and the more gender balanced valuing of children and children's interests, gives you hope. At the same time, we're seeing a significant decline in birth rates. My question for you is, what do you think is driving that?

00;28;31;22 - 00;29;14;22
Unknown
Do you know, have you done any polling? If not, you know, do you have theories around what's driving, the significant decline in birth rates? And is it related to these policies that we've been talking about and to as fewer and fewer people decide to have children and are able to have children and fewer people participate in actually raising children, are we going to swing back to what you see with, you know, the the older generation of men who were not intimately involved in child raising and so don't get the needs of children nearly as much as, you know, those people who have been involved in parenting their children very actively.

00;29;14;25 - 00;29;38;15
Unknown
Yeah. No, I, you know, I, I would say you're absolutely right. I, I, you know, your question was like, what gives me hope? And I gave you my, my issues that give me hope. The exactly what you're talking about is makes me very concerned. I think that as the, the ratio of, young people to old people continues to balance out the other way.

00;29;38;18 - 00;30;14;01
Unknown
I think that I do worry that that, thing and also sort of the gap in the racial generation gap. Right. You I do worry that older, you know, more predominantly white populations may not be as supportive of younger, you know, and actually now kids are majority, you know, majority kids of color in this country. So those two aspects so so those are the two things that exactly what you just talked about and that are the two things that really do worry me.

00;30;14;01 - 00;30;38;00
Unknown
And and what we are seeing, in, in some of the research is that it's a combination of reasons why the birth rate is declined. But certainly one of them and a big one. And I even see this with, you know, my own kids and their friends. Is that the the ability to raise a kid is so much harder, so much harder.

00;30;38;03 - 00;31;04;22
Unknown
You know, student debt, the cost of buying a house, the cost of raising a family, you know, raising kids. It's just so much child care, so much more expensive and unaffordable. And at the very moment that we're we're stepping away. Like one of the other things that I didn't even mention in the bill that just passed is, is a really a dramatic attack on student loans.

00;31;04;25 - 00;31;33;25
Unknown
And so we are going to, you know, dramatically increase student debt so people just don't feel they can possibly afford, even though when asked if you ask young families, like how many kids do you want, they'll same way more kids than they actually have or will have because they just don't see, you know, they're not being supported in, in sort of raising kids in a way that previous generations had, and it's just unaffordable to them.

00;31;33;28 - 00;31;59;17
Unknown
And so they just don't see the pathway. So now that I've taken away from you and I'm sorry, your line of hope, is there anything else that gives you hope? With our declining birth rate in the number of the percentage of seniors in certain states now outnumbering, or exceeding the percentage of of of children? Yeah, I think I think there is a recognition that it's a problem.

00;31;59;17 - 00;32;21;22
Unknown
Right. And so, you know, the problem is right now we're having people pay some lip service to it. So you had Elon Musk talks about it all the time. If you go on Twitter and look at this, he talks about he's a giant prone adolescent right. And he thinks, you know, he's himself has 13 kids. You know, whether that's you know, that's the way we should be doing it or not.

00;32;21;22 - 00;32;56;22
Unknown
Like I would say not. But you know, but he promotes this idea and, the vice president, JD Vance certainly has talked a lot about it. And yet, you know, their policies don't reflect that. Right? So like, like you can say all you want, but if you're not going to support, if you're going to be cutting, you know, maternal and child health, I mean, one of the things like one of the crazy things about public policy in this country is in this moment where people are seeing this, this dearth in the birth rate and and see that is actually a threat to our economic future.

00;32;56;25 - 00;33;23;25
Unknown
It's shocking, like we've been trying to address this issue in the child tax credit for literally, you know, 30, almost 30 years now. And it is that because it's not fully refundable, like, like this scenario is insane, is that if a moms on average lose about 38%, I think of their income during, pregnancy and childbirth. Right.

00;33;23;28 - 00;33;49;02
Unknown
And the way the child tax credit is structured is if you lose too much income during that period of time, you actually get penalized for having a baby. You actually lose your child tax credit. And and also the way it's graduated is that once you have a child, you have to you have to make even more money to get the full credit.

00;33;49;04 - 00;34;11;09
Unknown
So, so we punish people for having babies and we punish larger families in the child tax credit. It is stunning. And it's it it's unbelievable. But that is exactly what happened. And you know, we've been doing advocacy around it. And we go to people like J.D. Vance. And then he says, yeah, yeah, yeah, we need to increase the child tax credit to $5,000 a kid.

00;34;11;16 - 00;34;50;13
Unknown
Well, they just passed 2200. Where was he? He was the deciding vote. He had to break the tie. And did he? Where was he? Where was he weighing in on this. And and you just see like lots of, like happy talk. But the policies reflect the opposite. So tell me this, does this give you hope. So this is this is what I try and tell myself in my mind is that, you know, we we have H.R. one, the quote, big beautiful bill, as the president calls it, which you referred to as the most devastating piece of legislation with regard to children that you've ever seen.

00;34;50;13 - 00;35;19;10
Unknown
And you've been in government in politics for decades. I know that sometimes people vote a certain way when they're pressured to on a large piece of legislation like this, and then subsequently, smaller pieces of legislation are introduced to try and clean up the devastation of that high publicity piece of legislation like H.R. one. Are you seeing that happen?

00;35;19;10 - 00;35;54;02
Unknown
Are there any cleanup efforts that are going on in DC right now to try and protect children from the devastating consequences of the big, beautiful Bill? Yeah, absolutely. I do think that people are beginning to really understand more and more, what was really in this package and even now I'll say, like if people voted for it and now are, you know, saying they want to fix it, it does make me a little annoyed or a lot annoyed, but I'm there to work with them to try to fix it.

00;35;54;02 - 00;36;33;06
Unknown
So Senator Hawley is a pretty conservative Republican from Missouri. He talked about increasing the child tax credit. He talked about being opposed to the Medicaid cuts. He voted for massive amounts of Medicaid cuts and for a not really very good child tax credit at all. So he's introduced a bill now, you know, after voting for it to, repeal some of the Medicaid provisions and, you know, we will be talking to him about that, and we will also be talking to him about introducing legislation to actually improve the child tax credit.

00;36;33;06 - 00;37;01;23
Unknown
And then you can and really trying to get people to put their money where their mouth is. He's he's a pro-life Republican. And so I would say, well, your policies are punishing people for having kids. So let's, you know, you should fix that. So I do think that there's some movement to improve things. I will also point out that despite after all these cuts, we're beginning to see the appropriations process starting to move.

00;37;01;25 - 00;37;35;09
Unknown
And I will note that even in the House of Representatives, for example, they just they just did a, they basically just released their draft of sort of international aid, which is, you know, one of the areas it gets, you know, totally shortchanged. But what we saw there was they they're restoring some of the money that, particularly with respect to kids that they've either were cut or have been impounded or, you know, through DDoS and all that kind of aspect.

00;37;35;09 - 00;38;02;03
Unknown
So, you know, I do think I do agree with you. I think that there's some possibility of in cleanup that when people see the cuts coming, I think that there's going to be, some push to like, oh, we should mitigate some of this harm. Okay, so now I'm getting help. Okay. So there's cleanup going on or seeing appropriations being proposed to try and better support children.

00;38;02;03 - 00;38;34;03
Unknown
Are there, are there things that our listeners can do to help with that process? Yeah, absolutely, I really do. I think that, I think really talking to members of Congress, but also now a lot of this game is down the state level. So these cuts were really the the one of the biggest problems in the bill, for example, for kids in Medicaid and Chip is that it was you know, they can say, well, we didn't directly cut benefits or services to kids.

00;38;34;05 - 00;39;01;17
Unknown
And that's true. Like they didn't say, well, you know, they actually did try to cut some services. But for the most part really, the owner is problems of and the way kids are going to lose coverage is that they impose massive, massive, massive amounts of new bureaucracy and red tape and administrative barriers on families get to get, coverage and access to care.

00;39;01;19 - 00;39;26;28
Unknown
And so one of the things that can happen and that can be mitigated is some of those things can be, rolled back at the federal level, but also states and local governments can do things to really mitigate that and really help enable and overcome those barriers. I mean, it's kind of sad that that we have to sort of jerry rig a broken system, but, that is something that state governments can do.

00;39;26;28 - 00;39;49;18
Unknown
And, and that's something, you know, I think people will if they would weigh in people and say, you know, if we know that someone's low income or a kid has disabilities, why are we making them prove it again and again? Kid has cystic fibrosis. Or if they're not massive, you know, there's not a miracle that makes them immediately better three months later.

00;39;49;20 - 00;40;14;12
Unknown
So why does a family have to prove again and again and again? And if there's ways states can take actions to help those families not have to go again and again to, you know, government agencies to try to prove, their eligibility for services. That would be huge. And so those are the kinds of things, I think, that that can happen in and at the federal level.

00;40;14;12 - 00;40;37;28
Unknown
A good example of like a great piece of legislation is, there in Colorado, Congressman, new Jersey has a bill to provide continuous eligibility for children. And the administration has been rolling, you know, rolling back going back the opposite way. And I think people supported stuff like that, like, you know, reducing administrative barriers for kids. It would be huge.

00;40;38;07 - 00;40;56;18
Unknown
Thank you so much, Bruce, for your tireless advocacy for America's children. I have so much admiration and gratitude for you and the work that you do. And to our listeners, thank you for joining us today. Please tune in again soon for our next episode here on Radio Kempe.

00;40;56;18 - 00;41;13;07
Unknown
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